Found a post on the forums (heh I should macro that phrase much like I want to macro a “If you don’t like something about 4th edition then change but for the love of Mike quit pissing and moaning about it!” I’m not saying that people’s pissing and moaning aren’t valid complaints in their point of view. Far from it. But most of them just seem to be whining without any reason for it other than to let people know they’re not happy. They’re not asking for thoughts on alternative systems, offering some alternative for consideration and critique, but nope, it all boils down to “This sux, it’s not [insert whatever version they prefer].”
Okay didn’t mean to go off like that. I’ll stop now.
Anyway some backstory, if you’re not familiar with True 20 they also have a Minion type, called coincidentally the Mook. Much like Minions, Mooks die if they take any damage. BUT in True 20 to ‘hit’ someone you have to roll a To-Hit roll and succeed. Then the target rolls a Toughness check to see if they take damage. So T20 Mooks have to fail at two rolls, they have to get hit first and then have to take damage. In 4th Edition it’s just one roll, if the player rolls a to-hit, boom Minion goes down.
luckybell on the forums is essentially proposing to bring in a Toughness roll although he’s coming into from Savage Worlds which apparently has the same thing to some extent although slightly expanded. Essentially luckybell is going to add in a split toughness check. One value to Immobilize and one value to Kill. Not sure if I’d add in that extra level of complexity.
I do like the idea of an upgraded Minion because I’m finding the Minion just a little too glass jawed for my tastes so I think I’ll add in luckybell’s Mooks or at least a variant of them by giving them a ‘toughness check’. This check would be a hair over an average damage of the players at will powers at the appropriate level. So when a Mook gets hit and damage is rolled against it, if that damage is greater than X then the Mook dies. If it’s not then the Mook doesn’t die. Pretty simple. We don’t record damage, so no increase in bookkeeping. If the players roll low damage then we have some tough minions, if they roll decent damage then the minions go down just like always.
So here’s the original post and a link to the thread:
Or tougher minions.
I really like the way that Toughness works in Savage Worlds. If you’ve never seen the books, it goes like this…
Your damage is compared to a Toughness score. If it’s equal, the target is Shaken (no actions besides making a Spirit roll to recover). If you beat the Toughness by four, you take the target down.
This could be easily applied to minion monsters to make them a little more interesting in a fight. The minion would have a damage score, and when you beat it, it inflicts a condition on the minion. I would want to set the damage score to the level of an average At Will to immobilize, and the average damage-focused Encounter/Daily to kill outright. It gets a save against its conditions just like any other monster.
The idea is to give the party some interesting choices. They can burn a damage power to have a good chance of killing the mook. They could immobilize it with a At Will, move past and mess up the controller or artillery. They could team up or spend an action point to put it out of commission in one round with two At Wills. A Rogue with combat advantage could possibly take it down in one round.
So the stat block would look something like this:
Vampire Spawn Fleshripper
Level 5 Mook
Medium natural humanoid
Initiative +6
Senses Perception +4; darkvision
Damage Score: 13, immobilized. 20, slain.
AC 20; Fortitude 17, Reflex 18, Will 17
Immune disease, poison; Resist 5 necrotic
Speed 7, climb 4 (spider climb)
Claws (standard, at-will) ✦ Necrotic
+11 vs. AC; 5 necrotic damage (7 necrotic damage against a bloodied target).I’m assuming that characters of levels 5-7 will take this thing on. They’ve probably got +4 main stats, +1 or +2 weapons/implements, level 5 dailies, and maybe level 7 encounters.
I’ll make a wild-ass guess that the character’s good damaging powers will dish out between 15-25 damage. Their at-wills will be whacking around 13 damage. If they at-will a coup de grace while it’s immobilized, they’ll certainly hit the 20 they need to kill it.
Characters with damage type that matches a mook’s vulnerability would burn through them faster than the rest of the party, giving them a nice spotlight moment. I’d figure one mook would be worth two minions for purposes of encounter balance and XP.
So, poke some holes in this idea, find reasons it won’t be fun, kick the tires, etc. Thanks!
